Morality and BoJack Horseman
Video Overview & Insights
In this video essay, I explore ethics in BoJack Horseman and the intentions of the people behind it.
Wow this is the best BoJack video on YouTube, amazing work.
Help me pick my thumbnails on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sloanstowe
Chapters:
Very good! Just watched it again recently, at least some seasons, and knowing where it all ends up i think a few people sincerely seem to overlook how many times bojack actually DOES try to do the right thing...but it backfires on him (for comedy purposes of course) but it still backfires.
In my lifetime i've dealt with real narcissists and there is one significant difference. They DON'T want to change.
While you could never forgive a lot of what he did, the clever part about the show too was, as bad as he was at times OTHERS about him were making terrible decisions and taking no responsibility. For example (just to use the harshest) bojack doesn't twist sarah lynns arm for the bender, he simply calls and she was looking for the excuse. There are entire scenes like that.
00:00-01:42 preface
01:43-03:23 hollywood morality
Getting assigned "bojack" by those "which character are you" quizzes had me feeling really self-reflective. The guy isn't bad, as the show says, but he's soooo deeply flawed that its painful to know you've got flaws just like his.
03:24-06:44 princess carolyn's ethics
06:45-12:34 pc selfish vs. selfless
I think relating to these characters can really help and recognize in yourself and not wanting to be that person. Jax was that for me, & how Iād done similar. Recognition isnāt always validating, it can help see yourself in a way you were previously blind to or for whatever reason not able to see.
12:35-15:13 good and bad
15:14-16:42 what is too far?
brilliant! gonna be thinking about this vid for the next chunk of time for sure! thank you!
16:43-18:48 the writers' mistake
18:49-22:59 misinterpreting bojack
For me the hardest thing to Watch, where all the mother scenes with bojack, like all the Trauma she caused and he wanted to hate her but at the Same time wanted to be acknowledged and loved By her and SPOILERS!!!!
The Moment when he ditched her in the facinity I knew he felt terrible for doing it because I also had a Mother Like This and I always Said āearly on I had to Surfer cause of my Mother and know I am suffering because she suffersā with being left behind and knowing one is taking care of her because of her actions. This Show is disturbing in a beautyfull way!
23:00-26:22 philbert parallels
26:23-31:21 diane's ethics
Iāve not been even close to as immoral as Bojack and seeing this show makes me feel like I can redeem myself. Like maybe because Iām so young I have a chance. I said something horrible to someone I love and even though I canāt make it up now maybe I can be better and try my best to be better. Maybe someday itāll be alright. Idk
31:22-35:00 diane's worst act
35:01-37:16 diane's growth
35:52 this section seems like a big stretch to act like what she did with that scene was all that harmful.
Itās actually unlikely Penny would ever see that scene unless she specifically sought it out, sheād have to go onto a premium channel and watch a show that she knows someone she doesnāt like stars in.
I understand itās hard to find examples of bad things. Diane does because she doesnāt really do that much bad- maybe wouldāve been better to just admit that then to try to make a equivalence between this and all the other stuff here
37:17-39:37 showrunner ethics
39:38-41:54 writers' hypocrisy
The thing about bojack, is his worst actions have barely anything to do with his addiction. He is a terrible person because he CHOOSES to be. One of my best friends is a recovered addict and an amazing person. And while he was in active addiction, he lied and was selfish sure. But ultimately hurt himself the most. Bojack chooses to traumatize and sabotage people around him, and sometimes hes sober when he does it too.
41:55-45:08 redemption
45:09-45:50 closing
the āmisinterpreting bojackā bit should def be clipped on tiktok! iāve seen so many videos of ppl finding comfort in being exactly like him
Art by: https://www.instagram.com/joyblivion
Sources:
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
McDonnell, Chris. Bojack Horseman: The Art Before the Horse. Abrams, 2018.
Temple, Matthew. Male Characters and Masculine Representation in the Era of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in Hollywood. August 2023. (pdf below; I didnāt actually end up using this source in the final edit, but still highly recommend it. Iām 99% sure āRobertā is Raphael Bob-Waksberg)
The real issue is clearly Raphael writing Bojack. Why would he write something that causes himself so much grief?
https://knowledge.uchicago.edu/record/7184/files/Temple_Matthew_Thesis_082023.pdf
https://iep.utm.edu/psychological-egoism/#:~:text=Psychological%20egoism%20is%20the%20thesis,can%20have%20ultimately%20altruistic%20motives.
https://variety.com/2015/tv/news/bojack-horseman-renewed-season-3-netflix-1201549845/
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/donald-trump-tony-soprano
is it weird to feel exactly like diane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdv1-EHfxeo
Podcast Interview:
amazing video !! š«¶
Letās Talk with Sam Fragoso - Episode 142 (Courtesy of Sam Fragoso and Karoline Ribak)
Listen to the full episode here: https://talkeasypod.com/raphael-bob-waksberg/
One of the most wild things i read in a reddit threat on bojack horseman was - unironically - someone stating that the whole story was a cautionary tale about a man who is destroyed by women. This was the moment i left reddit for good.
Read the full context of quotes used here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cn2ngjy3fxzc08fuu5gtf/Talk-Easy-Quotes.pdf?rlkey=b093qps5u71yb5w3lvmw95q86&dl=0
Interviews:
will never forget watching that second to last episode for the first time. i SOBBED
https://ew.com/tv/2020/02/14/netflix-bojack-horseman-creator-episode-recommendations/
https://gothamist.com/arts-entertainment/bojack-horseman-creator-raphael-bob-waksberg-on-dealing-with-difficult-damaged-men
SEXTINNNA AQUAFINNNNA PEW PEW PEW PEW. A ANOTHER GOOD HUMOROUS EXAMPLE - "This is not just a woman's issue. I'm a man, but if I got pregnant, would I put my life on hold for a child I didn't want? Yes, I would! And I can say that with confidence... because I will never have to make that decision. So, I'm unbiased!"
https://web.archive.org/web/20181203164552/https://laist.com/2017/09/11/interview_creator_raphael_bob-waksberg_reflects_on_season_4_of_bojack_horseman.php
https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/bojack-horseman-season-5-anti-heroes-philbert-raphael-bob-waksberg-1202005132/
Bojack was a Hank Moody without a family š
https://www.vulture.com/2018/09/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-horseman-apology-tours.html
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/09/bojack-horseman-raphael-bob-waksberg-season-5-me-too
I love the contrast between princess caroline and dianne. PC worked incredibly hard to build her life while Dianne was kind of handed everything she got because of her talent and luck. As a result, PC cares a lot more about maintaining order while Dianne is much more willing to burn everything down and rebuild from the chaos
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bojack-horseman-harvey-weinstein_n_5b9e8b55e4b046313fbc1b93
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episode-408-the-big-trip-pt-3-metoo-and-redemption-bojack-horseman-james-frey-buffy-s-bio-and-more-1.4831596/bojack-horseman-creator-raphael-bob-waksberg-spins-sadness-and-pathos-into-comedic-gold-1.4831609
Itās crazy how much I relate to Dianeās character even though Iām a dude.
https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/bojack-season-5-controversy-ending-perfection-1202003765/
https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/raphael-bob-waksberg-bojack-horseman-ending-interview.html
i love BoJack, he's an amazingly written character, and I also think he's not a bad nor a good guy.
BUT, I'd be terrified of being ANYTHING like him in my later life.
https://www.vulture.com/2015/07/bojack-horseman-season-two-raphael-bob-waksberg.html
great video, good job!
More User Perspectives
I do not believe moral ambiguity needs to be suppressed or "corrected". The issue with BoJack is the way he goes through with things, especially those that harm others (as in lack of self control), lashes out, among some other specific behaviors. It's just so tiring, I don't think correcting people who end up with idiotic understandings of BoJack horseman, and those who interpret the objectively unclear to have one concrete meaning, is even worth my time.
@Odaxelagnia.This is incredibly articulated.šš¼šš¼
@JesusChristo264I related so hard to Bojack, just that waking up and seeing your friend overdosed.
In terms of all the terrible shit that happened to him , totally gave me major sympathy for the character.
When I was in college my roommates watched seasons 4 and 5 of Bojack together. They convinced one of my roommates to get sober and imo made them a much better person. I donāt really have an opinion about whether or not art SHOULD change people, I just know bojack changed my roommate for the better. So if Raphael Bob-Waksberg ever sees this, you changed at least one person.
@YsabelMullarkyits a comedy a real comedy. contrasting normal with absurd. where we laugh at the absurd cus its absurd
@PenelopeGrimBojack left me feeling like the question of whether or not I can be forgiven for the things I've done in the past matters a lot less than the question of if I can change the things I do in the present.
@salty5400i identify with all the characters
@trolllleyFree trial for YouTube premium ended. Back to Spotify I go. Fuck you YouTube.
@BroLandturdI think the most importan part of BoJack is that there is desire in him to be good. He fails a lot and don't have an understanding of whats really good as for not only for him but for people around him but he wants make good things and that's what makes me give more credit for people honestly
@CoSieMilosieI feel like the message of Bojack and it's morality can be summed up by the brilliant line "You canāt just keep doing shitty things and then feel bad about it like that makes it okay. You need to be better!"
@HG-fs3wfwhen i first watched bojack horseman, i was in sophomore year, drinking and addicted to nicotine and very passively suicidal. it was hard seeing a character also like that, because bojack hurt so many people like i have. but bojack also made me not want to die, and i think thats important. free churro and the view from halfway down are episodes i think about on the daily. iām about to rewatch it, so hopefully it doesnāt crush me all over again then build me back up but i have feeling that it will.
@cupidlyricMy late 20's, I was plagued with depression. BoJack hit me at at time of self reflection, it's nice to have a bit more understanding how this show effected me so, thanks in that. I'm far more mentally balanced now, not completely but enough so to know when to reach out.
@kevindaydreamerone of my favorite lines from the show was when PC and Diane spend a whole episode to spin a whole PR incident about abortion into a better light, only at the end for the person who wasn't having an abortion to actually get pregnant and says she wanted to keep it, and PC says "Yeah, people love kids!"
this writing is so top notch
I think the lesson is that we don't change for the approval or acceptance of others but rather to try to heal our own self-destructive loops.
@RJR2534when i first watched bojack horseman i was in the depths of hell with my undiagnosed BPD. when i watched it, i related to Diane and Bojack for different reason, and i had never related to a character before. it rlly kicked me into bettering myself and trying therapy again and new meds. Therapy didnāt work btw(too self awareš) but i donāt relate to them anymore really. Maybe diane a little bit.
@crystalzodiac6431i loved your pc section
@ASSOCIATESSWORDSTUDIOThis is a great great video
@davidhaight5594Ngl I think itās atrocious that this video has over 2 million views yet you only have 185k subscribers. I love philosophy, and this is the best psychological dive into Bojack Iāve watched. Keep it up šš» and maybe do more videos on the topics of morality and ethics!
@mickyfiessel6374wow seeing the USS new mexico thing from ur perspective is crazy i didnt think other than bojack being ashamed or embarassed about it wow. But tbh the whole idea of bojack living in that house for months is just so weird and goofy thats unrealistic as hell. that makes the story that the black guy told holly hock sound so creepy when it was supposed to be ridiclous or when holyhock drugged todd i forgot about those thinks watching these 6 seasons in such a short time frame. i binged the show on 2x speed
@lundoren5240I don't find the question "Does Bojack deserve happiness?" to be relevant to the best outcome for the society in this world. The best outcome is to stop him and people like him from doing harm and hopefully repair what damage they've done that is repairable. With Bojack, if he was able to be that person I think he would be happy.
Like Diane attacking Bojack with her script, centering what Bojack deserves decenters what others need
Penny doesn't benefit from Bojack being unhappy, she benefits from a world with fewer power-drunk selfish men abusing people. Society doesn't benefit from a fetishization of justice; real justice protects and heals.
That will mean criminals being made unhappy, but not as a goal, as a side-effect of protecting others from them. A just society doesn't abuse in response to abuse.
Did you know that this show was made by jews?š
@tonzennegger7185Why did YouTube hide this from me for 2 years?
@PhatNicI loved hearing some of the background with the show runners and their thoughts put in line with what was happening in the show when they felt that way as I didn't get the opportunity to watch all of Bojack contemporaneously. Great video!
@machiav_ellieBojack horseman is an awesome show and itās a wake up call for me but also it feels like āletās make a show about a horrible person who keeps making their own life horrible just when things seem to be getting better over and over and over againā
@hopper8514Reminds me of Moral Orel.
@xX_Blackberrie_Korpse_XxA show that reminds me so much of Bojack Horseman is The Comeback with Lisa Kudrow. Iād be interested in you thoughts on that series if youāre a fan!
@Gaygatsbyy