The Truth about Reactions in Fighting Games

the difference between a reaction test like "click when the screen turns green" is knowing exactly what you need to do exactly when you need to do it. In a fighting game... it's figuring out what you need to do, then doing it. So you have 18 frames for your brain to go "I need to block low" based on a few frames of animation then actually block low or "I need to side step" based on a few frames of animation, then... execute the sidestep. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's more to it than knowing for certain exactly what you need to do and then doing it, especially when it's just a mouse click. Also, did you call yourself a Boomer?

2:00 the thing is, even with the successful blocks how many were actual reactions vs guesses?

The truth is 13F and below are reactable on optimized PC from my personal testing in SF5+6.

Reactions are not static and often vary by 50ms~ or 3F.
Unsure if this is due to monitor/engine, input delay chain, or human limitation.

You MUST study the FIRST frame of the move or you won't even know what you're reacting to.

In a real match, it's VERY HARD since the opponent may have hundreds of options available, and certain moves look similar.

Dude, when you talk about the refresh rate you totally should have used the mario speedrun analogy, "imagine a bus stop..."

Em 13:20 alguém comenta sobre o Brasil?! 🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷

I can react if it's in my mental stack.

The way I see it is yes, an 18 frame move is reactable if you’re expecting it. Otherwise it’s probably not.

The problem is that, usually people mistake reaction with reflex. And if you add mental stack, atention span, input AND output lag into the equation, things are not as simple anymore.

It is mind boggling to me that te standard is still PS5 on LAN. Like every other genre has PCs now on LAN

I think saying something isn't reactable is a great way to never react to it. Versus saying it IS reactable, and actually trying and giving yourself the chance to do so.
There's a Grimnir 50/50 in GBVSR where you have about 18f to react to a high low with the only tell being "Is Grimnir on Screen or Not?" And you have very little time to tell and react to the answer. But you CAN react to the answer. Every time? No. Easily? No. Can you? Yes.
And THAT is the difference. Because yes, you CAN react to it. OR, you can sit there and say its completely unreactable and turn what you might just lock in enough to react to into instead a true 50/50.

So. Up to you I guess. Tell yourself its reactable and try and maybe you're right or maybe you're wrong, or tell yourself its unreactable BS and 50/50 it.

18f reactable only if u have just 1 thing to react to. add one more mixup and it goes out of the window.

Mental stack affects you as the game drags on

if you cant react to a 60F move you either have a skill issue

or you're my boyfriend with really bad reaction times and i genuinely feel bad for you would you like a hug

I block this almost all the time!

Petty ahh FGC: Fail montage to call them out 😂

I have a 300 ms + reaction time. I cant play fighting games. Genetics are a bitch. In any sort of competition, in every part of your life, all is disctated by genetics.

Ayo, react to this 150 frame overhead with a startup animation identical to the characters walk cycle. You couldn't? Well I'll be damned!

The buzzer is so funny

FFXIV soundtrack goes so hard

FF14 music nice

....18f....OFFLINE?!

me when i mental stack

Reaction tests are easy. Now do it with 20 different other reactable things happening that require different responses.

Saying "18 frames is reactable." Is like saying "the hoop is bigger than the ball." It communicates as close to nothing as possible without being nothing.

Every fighting game has unc reaction speed on human benchmark i swear to god 280+ demons

240hz giving less lag with 60fps than on 60hz is false

It could result in less lag with 240hz vsync off compared to 60hz vsync on, but in reality it mostly depends on a game and even then the benefit will vary from time to time

The real one is vrr vsync on, and only with capped hz, so with 240hz monitor capped at 200 you'll get 180hz with vsync in 60fps capped game with proper times and without price of traditional vsync. But again the income will be mostly neglitable

Without vrr and vsync you'll get tearing since monitor refreshes from up to bottom, and it is way worse than few ms of extra vsync lag

240hz giving less lag with 60fps than on 60hz is false

It could result in less lag with 240hz vsync off compared to 60hz vsync on, but in reality it mostly depends on a game and even then the benefit will vary from time to time

The real one is vrr vsync on, and only with capped hz, so with 240hz monitor capped at 200 you'll get 180hz with vsync in 60fps capped game with proper times and without price of traditional vsync. But again the income will be mostly neglitable

Without vrr and vsync you'll get tearing since monitor refreshes from up to bottom, and it is way worse than few ms of extra vsync lag

what this has told me as a new Strive player is that I should be using uncharged dust way more

maybe 20 ish frame startup moves are reactable but they also have to be distinct from other moves within the very first frames

Depends on if it is a console or a pc though 6:23

People get caught up in the frames being reactable because technically a specific move may be within a human reation time frame. However, you gotta look at these moves on a case by case basis, because nobody begins reacting to something the first frame it happens.

Lets say you have an overhead like Leona's from KOF 13, you aren't reacting to the very first frame of the overhead you're picking a recognizable frame from it from where you reaction begins. In this case, it's reacting to her feet leaving the ground/her leg being raised. This is a very clear and unique telegraph because she has no other moves where she moves like that, especially when it comes to hitting low.

However, sometimes you will have moves with poor telegraphs that appear close to if not identical to others in their very first few startup frames, which effectively gives you less space to actually react to the overhead/low/unblockable. If you have a 28 frame startup move then it should be pretty obviously reactable, however if the telegraph to that move only becomes apparent in the last 8 frames then it's not realistically reactable as to which type of move (overhead/low/unblockable).

I tried reaction time in my phone whole driving which simulatea how u actually react in game when ur doong other stuff n u get avg 300ms i mean for me

this is especially hard to teach people in tekken - a move that has 22f startup, but the first 8 frames are indistinguishable from another move that has to be defended differently, is functionally a 14f move.

Reacting is one thing. but making the right decision in the moment another.

With ambiguous animations and input lag, 18f is almost never actually 18f

Funny to see this conversation come up every 3 years or so. I will save this video for the next time.

Pure reaction time is not a skill

I didn't read the title and thought they were talking about women who have just turned 18

I mean, he said it is a skill issue, not that HE can react to it lol

0:03 my man turned into a bee for a second

In strive, uncharged dust is 20f until it’s active, but the telltale orange flash doesn’t appear until frame 3. For that reason, since I think most people are reacting to the orange flash rather than the first frame of the animation, I think uncharged dusts are more like 17f overheads in practice

0:45 what’s uncharged dust?

reminds me of unblockables in soul calibur end tekken, slow ass start ups, very recognizable animations, people get got by them all the time if you just ramdomly sprinkle them in into your gameplay

TBF, dust does not look like overhead AT ALL, that shit looks like a low or mid for ~80% of the cast it feels like

3:08 This is a good example why good player should have a hype man, so he has clearer thinking. These reaction website tests are trash and inaccurate and say they are inaccurate.
Heres is how you make every video game into sf6. add a button on the desk that if you press it the other person has to press it or they lose 1/3 of their life bar.

Scientifically, it is true that on average a human being can react to a 15f start up attack. what they fail to mention is thats only in the most ideal circumstance, no flashing lights, no strong color details (no background or background animations, no animated characters or objects), and nothing else for the person to pay attention to.

Even that good old child's game most of us have played at one time or another, aka the game of "catch the ruler I'm about to drop and don't go above this line," has too many details for you to react to 15fs perfectly.

With all the details on screen, the "practical reactionary test" is closer to 21-26 frames.

source: I'm a Game Designer